Honestly, I am not opposed to the black void as a background. Makes the words in our posts stand out more. I might be alone in that opinion.

But I'm excited to see the new navigation system—thanks for all your hard work, Zach!

Hello everyone,

I don't usually comment much on site changes and AI, and I understand that others who are more accepting of AI-generated images might understand, but the majority of the site does not want AI-generated images. Overall, our entire site is very anti-AI, more than most sites; therefore, this might offend many people in general, since overall, gen AI (while not all AI is bad, it has existed since the 40s and 50s), and using gen AI is very problematic.

For starters, we are taking down copyrighted images we had in the first place, but using AI images will not solve the problem of copyright integrity. Current gen-AI often uses images that were copyrighted and did not gain the author's permission, and using that as its training data, therefore using AI-generated images would generally also break copyright, and if we care about protecting copyrighted integrity, then gen AI is also a strict no.

In addition, as a personal artist who has taken many art classes and overall had friends involved in the art industry, I feel it is disrespectful. Just as using gen AI for writing on a writing-based website is very disrespectful, using AI art is also extremely disrespectful, especially since gen AI has already endangered and undermined many artists overall.

Personally, I get why many don't want to take a photo (doxxing, etc.), and while stock images can be used and edited, it would take an incredible amount of labor as well, and especially on a volunteer-based site, it is very difficult to do in a short period.

My solution is this: have no background as we develop images over the next few years for forums. We are a writing-based website where writing, such as the 200+ word count, comes first. That is our foundation for this site, and coding, background images, and others are secondary.

While we have 400+ forums as well, we can also reuse images, such as the same general image for many, even as many as 200+ forums. I personally never really noticed changes in the background and don't mind no backgrounds in general, and I'm willing to contribute as well to this project as needed. However, this solution will also take years, but I see many willing to invest their time over the years to make this site better, even if it's just 20 minutes per month.

I am very opposed to using AI for background images. If we don't allow AI for other purposes on site, it feels hypocritical (in my opinion) to allow it to be another aspect of the site. I would honestly prefer to keep it as it is now (plain) rather than encourage AI to continuously be part of the site. This is a creative site; AI does not promote human creativity.

Reyna:
I honestly think that using AI generated images as backgrounds (since it is such a small thing) would be completely fine with me. I might be biased as someone who studies AI, but I feel it is another radical innovation that will take years to get used to. I do agree that AI is quite dangerous, and has many many many many downfalls. But it also can be a very helpful tool. Just like the iPhone or computer, things people at the time deemed too dangerous, AI will eventually become similar to that. Computers took away the jobs of human computers, the internet put newspapers out of business, and so much more. But newspapers still exist, just in a different way.

What Reyna said here is kinda how I feel about AI - I know that people are very against it, but I do think it's the next evolution of technology that is here to stay. I do have a lot of worries about where AI is going, but I think eventually it's going to be so ingrained that refusing to use it is going to be like refusing to use a computer. Admittedly, maybe I'm desensitized, because my job heavily uses AI (this is just the way the field is going, most people in my field are going to have to adapt to using it) but I think while there are some uses that are especially bad (Like I wouldn't want people using it to RP on a creative writing site, and I don't like the idea of it taking creative jobs like voice acting, making music, novels, etc) there are some uses of it that can be helpful as well. Especially if it helped Zach with what is already a very large task I know. It could even be temporary until we have a better solution, or toggle-able.

I really would hate to have just black backgrounds after coming from the mood-setting images we had. If there was a way to do it with royalty free images in a way that looked nice, that would be great, though if it was AI and that worked for Zach, I wouldn't be against it either and would prefer it to the blank alternative. If it was between blank and AI, I would vote for AI, at least just for my personal opinion.

On the other hand, it's clear that a lot of the community is very against it, so I feel a little uncomfortable saying that, as I also don't want the community to be upset, or to drive people away either. If the community is unanimous against AI images though, I hope we can find something that works besides blank.

Zach please note that this is a local browser storage (I don't mess with anything that touches a backend, I never had money to afford hosting and certification and all so I use a free host that only lets me edit front end stuff) so if someone cleared their cache, this setting would be reset. if they used a new browser, this would be reset. So, if this is of any help???

Please feel free to take a look? It may be a compromise. If they'd rather look at a plain. black. void. They can. But for those of us who do want the view and aesthetic, the image toggle is an option.

Della Barfield wrote: Yesterday, 23:34 Honestly, I am not opposed to the black void as a background. Makes the words in our posts stand out more. I might be alone in that opinion.

But I'm excited to see the new navigation system—thanks for all your hard work, Zach!

I can try to post my own thoughts soon but you are not entirely alone in that opinion.

On the note of those saying that gen AI is comparative to other technological advancements (PCs, phones, etc) I actually do not believe that's necessarily true. Gen AI is almost entirely built off of stolen work to function to the extent it does and to be as 'aesthetic' as it is. This is a totally different situation than simply a program or machine.

I can absolutely deal with the void. couldn't we also do the same brown textured background or color as the one used for the sidebars? It would match the theme of the site as well without being so harsh. I feel like that's fairly simple and unproblematic.

Toggle or not, even just the implementation of it does have negative consequences. I can't speak on how strongly Zach feels about wanting to create new backgrounds, I understand that this site is held very close to their heart, but I will still press that this event will have lasting consequences for many, many more people than just Zach or just the staff team. I completely agree with the sentiment that it speaks negatively about the character of the site if it is implemented.

Thank you, Zach, for giving us time and for the new things you're planning. I'm sure you're working extensively on these updates and we appreciate you.

Jake Morris wrote: Yesterday, 23:52

Reyna:
I honestly think that using AI generated images as backgrounds (since it is such a small thing) would be completely fine with me. I might be biased as someone who studies AI, but I feel it is another radical innovation that will take years to get used to. I do agree that AI is quite dangerous, and has many many many many downfalls. But it also can be a very helpful tool. Just like the iPhone or computer, things people at the time deemed too dangerous, AI will eventually become similar to that. Computers took away the jobs of human computers, the internet put newspapers out of business, and so much more. But newspapers still exist, just in a different way.

What Reyna said here is kinda how I feel about AI - I know that people are very against it, but I do think it's the next evolution of technology that is here to stay. I do have a lot of worries about where AI is going, but I think eventually it's going to be so ingrained that refusing to use it is going to be like refusing to use a computer. Admittedly, maybe I'm desensitized, because my job heavily uses AI (this is just the way the field is going, most people in my field are going to have to adapt to using it) but I think while there are some uses that are especially bad (Like I wouldn't want people using it to RP on a creative writing site, and I don't like the idea of it taking creative jobs like voice acting, making music, novels, etc) there are some uses of it that can be helpful as well. Especially if it helped Zach with what is already a very large task I know. It could even be temporary until we have a better solution, or toggle-able.

I really would hate to have just black backgrounds after coming from the mood-setting images we had. If there was a way to do it with royalty free images in a way that looked nice, that would be great, though if it was AI and that worked for Zach, I wouldn't be against it either and would prefer it to the blank alternative. If it was between blank and AI, I would vote for AI, at least just for my personal opinion.

On the other hand, it's clear that a lot of the community is very against it, so I feel a little uncomfortable saying that, as I also don't want the community to be upset, or to drive people away either. If the community is unanimous against AI images though, I hope we can find something that works besides blank.

agreed! I also personally do not like the blank as much now that we actually get to see it. It makes the site a lot less appealing for me and I also hope we can find something that works that is not blank.

Lourine Hoax wrote: Today, 00:27
On the note of those saying that gen AI is comparative to other technological advancements (PCs, phones, etc) I actually do not believe that's necessarily true. Gen AI is almost entirely built off of stolen work to function to the extent it does and to be as 'aesthetic' as it is. This is a totally different situation than simply a program or machine.

I can absolutely deal with the void. couldn't we also do the same brown textured background or color as the one used for the sidebars? It would match the theme of the site as well without being so harsh. I feel like that's fairly simple and unproblematic.

Toggle or not, even just the implementation of it does have negative consequences. I can't speak on how strongly Zach feels about wanting to create new backgrounds, I understand that this site is held very close to their heart, but I will still press that this event will have lasting consequences for many, many more people than just Zach or just the staff team. I completely agree with the sentiment that it speaks negatively about the character of the site if it is implemented.

Thank you, Zach, for giving us time and for the new things you're planning. I'm sure you're working extensively on these updates and we appreciate you.

I partially agree in how it is different from a machine because I partially agree that AI is different from past inventions like a computer. While older technology like computers took away tedious tasks, AI takes away the creativity as well like art and writing. However the original purpose of AI was to improve life, by doing the same things as computers (making coding easier, creating presentations easier, making taking notes easier, etc) but because people are using it in the wrong way it is also having a negative harm in other aspects such as the creativity that we are seeing and much more detrimental ones that I don't want to mention.

For this reason, I want to point out how AI was created with good intentions, and it can be used well, it is just how some of us use it that is causing all of these problems. If people didn't think to take AI work and sell it to replace human artists, AI art could just be used for cases like this: simple, cheaper, less work and extremely beneficial, just like how it was intended, to make things simpler for humans.

The main reason I made this new post however was to suggest this idea: I also like the brown color idea and believe it is better than just a plain black color. But I think that a simple brown color with lights or lanterns (think like a hallway that matches the Hogwarts aesthetic vibe) or a standardized background that is not black or one plain color but one that could be used on every forum would be better than just black. Perhaps instead of 400 different images there could be one standard one for inside Hogwarts, one standard one for outside hogwarts, a standard one for London, a standard one for Hogsmeade, the Ministry of Magic, the other schools, etc... do you see what I'm getting at? Leaving the staff forums, site info, etc as brown or what I suggested with the lights is fine to reduce the amount of work. Because if people are really against AI, which is what I am seeing, than I would rather have some artwork, even if it is much simpler and there is much less, than none at all.

EDIT: just noticed some others had suggested a similar idea and I completely agree!

Guys, let's be real. Please. 400+ forums. No one, literally no one, is going to sign up for that AND make the art for every single one of those forums without dropping out at some point. Let's also just point at the fact that, and this is a really hard thing for me to say because again, I respect all the artists but I can identify this problem. Some art styles will not match. Some people's levels of artistic abilities are not alike. if there happens to be a "vote" or a "competition" in where a user's background image that they drew will be selected via popular vote, it will probably hurt the other artist's feelings.

I absolutely am interested in signing up to do the forums as I've stated multiple times, and several people in this forum alone have been begging for this option to be equally considered. The burden would be on the volunteers and they are the ones insisting that they are willing to do this, I don't understand why we are assuming that no one is interested or acting as if staff will face the majority of this burden.
I'm also not sure why it is a negative that not everyone's styles will match (diversity in art should be a GOOD thing, you should be proud that so many different players love to volunteer here) or that a vote exists. If people are signing up, they are consenting to a vote, similar sites like Neopets have users actively submitting art for monthly showcases after years and have similarly creative communities and can simply resubmit their art if they'd like. I am completely certain people will do this for some house points or in-game currency or a spot in the entrance hall.

If there are volunteers that take their art with them, there will absolutely be others to fill the space. Look at OOC shops and sports waitlists, people have always been willing to volunteer for this site and wait to do so, this is nothing new for Hogwarts.io. There are 800 people in the official discord alone, thousands of people are using this site and many of them would step up to make one piece or several. Many of them would love to see their artwork on one of the many forums and encourage each other to submit theirs. Even if this isn't just an idea of 1 person volunteers for everything, I am confident that all the forums can be filled within months if players were given the space to do so.

I don't understand why we are acting like this option is unreliable just because it includes human resources and diversity, because that is what hogwarts.io should be supporting in their creatives, if not the entire point of the site.

The main reason I made this new post however was to suggest this idea: I also like the brown color idea and believe it is better than just a plain black color. But I think that a simple brown color with lights or lanterns (think like a hallway that matches the Hogwarts aesthetic vibe) or a standardized background that is not black or one plain color but one that could be used on every forum would be better than just black. Perhaps instead of 400 different images there could be one standard one for inside Hogwarts, one standard one for outside hogwarts, a standard one for London, a standard one for Hogsmeade, the Ministry of Magic, the other schools, etc... do you see what I'm getting at? Leaving the staff forums, site info, etc as brown or what I suggested with the lights is fine to reduce the amount of work. Because if people are really against AI, which is what I am seeing, than I would rather have some artwork, even if it is much simpler and there is much less, than none at all.

Thank you for noting this, I completely agree. I'm not sure why our only options are fill 400+ forums with distinct art or black void. We absolutely can do something in between and make a few pieces without using AI content. A lot of the forums shared backgrounds prior to this blank one. Even if all of the pages share one background initially, I don't find it an issue if more art is added over time.

I do really like Reyna’s idea, having a general and simple background for the IC locations. And, having a brown coloured backgrounds for the rest of the backgrounds sound way better than having a plain black.

I also like the toggle on/off idea as well, if we end up doing the AI-generated idea. I’m still not quite sure how I feel exactly about AI, but I do know I don’t like the idea of using AI-generated images for backgrkunds. Like Sage said, it doesn’t feel right to have rules against AI writing and then decide to insert AI images for backgrounds. I’m quite glad that we promote against AI writing, so I’m opposing against the AI images idea. It can/would be unfair to users who have gotten in trouble with AI content to see that we are generating images in two seconds for the site’s backgrounds.

Regardless, I am quite grateful for the work Zach puts into our beloved site!