Hello. I just wanted to pop on here really quick just to say that, first of all, if there was the choice between no bg / textured background over an ai background, I would choose no background.
Second of all, I just want to say that I think it may be completely possible to replace the backgrounds for this site with stock photography or art produced by people on this site. Seeing that a large collective of people are against using generative ai for this site, (and personally, I do wish that there was a stricter policy against ai content for profile pictures and such, but that is a whole other thing), and there are many people who would be happy to help create art for this site. I just wanted to put it out there that it would be time consuming, and the full site wouldn't be finished for quite some time. I am aware of this. But it also hosts an opportunity for willing members of the community, including myself, to donate something to this site that we love so much, which also helps boost its appeal as a human site. I have also thought of ideas for backgrounds that aren't stock photography or drawn portraits, but rather collages. This WWW collage took me about 15 minutes to make, and I think would make a sick looking background. People here would be happy to provide their hours of labour for the aesthetics of this site, and I think taking it into at least a little bit of consideration would be nice.

It could also help build community to host competitions, and would make people happy to see their own artwork on the site, even if it may not be finished immediately. But I think that a lot of people, including myself, would prefer it to take just that bit more time for a more satisfying result, and would make people happier at large and would bring up memories of a fun competition or how they put a lot of love and effort into the background that they see displayed, than having a background instantly that people don't think twice about after they see it.

I would also like to say that I am perfectly happy and able to help organize groups of people that would be willing to donate their time and effort, as would many others. I also propose that people who are willing to moderate and lead groups that produce artworks for the site can band together and create a system so it isn't chaotic. I know a lot of people here that are very organized and capable of doing this, including myself. Also compensation doesnt have to be in physical money either. People get gratification for things that they earn on this site, and maybe people who work on the backgrounds can receive a pin in their trunk or inventory that is exclusive to the art-making event. I have many more ideas as well, but I think it is entirely possible to not use ai, and am heavily against it. Though I do appreciate everything that Zach does for the site, and am not undermining his struggle with the work that he has to do to keep this site fun and exciting. I am merely stating my opinion.

I am unable to develop and answer more to what has been raised here at the moment but just two things :

— I'd like to accentuate Meiyu's proposition of having textured backgrounds, and mine of expanding the current frames of the posts (here it's leather) and make them darker / blurred as bg.
— I feel a vote would allow everyone to express themselves, including those who don't dare to speak in this thread, which I can absolutely understand.

I appreciate all the effort and passion that has gone into this site.

However, I dislike genAI backgrounds. They are as unpleasant to me as the blank backgrounds are to some. I would prefer that they are not used. If this goes forward, I would really appreciate an option to toggle it off.

It is also highly uncomfortable for some people who dislike genAI to express their thoughts. Especially when their words are frequently misinterpreted and sometimes even seen as personal attacks. Jumping to conclusions makes the conversation stagnant.

My dislike for AI has nothing to do with any individual, so please do not misconstrue this.

Dealla has made an excellent point that I agree with: people who don’t like the AI backgrounds and people who don’t like the blank backgrounds are both valid. But it seems as though most alternatives and compromises get shot down almost instantly. Is the aim to reach some middle ground here?

I quite like Meiyu’s suggestion of textured backgrounds and Emma’s suggestion too.

Ultimately I believe a vote would benefit the community best to allow more people to be heard.

First of all Zach I understand why you are doing this but personally I would prefer a non blank background but neither a Ai gen one however I also have an idea that is for mane rp and heavily for send areas you would have AI picture but in places like here in other places like this you have blank backgrounds as well as this I would like to point out that there are lot’s of great AI image creating websites that are generally free and would probably have a) better quality images b) more original and less likely to be copyrighted images

Anonymous User

Had Nancy/Logan not kindly offered posting responses anonymously, I likely would have scrapped this response as these sorts of conversations do seem to have a tendency to become vaguely heated. So, thank you so much!!

On principle, I am against the use of AI art for the backgrounds. This is for many reasons, most of which have already been described far more eloquently than I could. However, I also fully understand the limitations behind expecting many people to swiftly volunteer their time to either create images, using stock royalty-free photos as well as the argument that AI art is a tool.

Black/Plain Backgrounds
I believe that pretty backgrounds (as opposed to plain black) have a genuine positive impact on gaining and retaining new members, allowing them to enjoy the amazing site which H.io is.

When I first joined, the “aesthetic” of Hogwarts.io was certainly a factor for me getting fully invested into the site. This ranged from the charming menu system, other members’ beautiful RP codes and encys and, probably, the way the backgrounds immersed you in each forum. I’m not saying that I wouldn’t have stayed had the backgrounds not been so beautiful but it definitely could have played a part and, for new members still considering getting involved, it really could be a deciding factor.

Also, while I, personally, would opt not to have AI backgrounds in favour of the plain ones, I have a (completely vibe-based) suspicion that there is a “quiet” majority in favour of them.

The “Toggle”
If the AI backgrounds do go into effect:

This, theoretically, is a wonderful idea which I do like a lot, assuming that it is possible. However, I think that most people’s issue with the AI backgrounds is more about them being made and used at all and not about whether they are displayed to the person themself. Toggling their backgrounds off would likely not leave people who wish to content as they may feel it is doing nothing against the actual use.

To possibly placate this (and assuming that it is technologically possible), if it were possible for Zach to have access to a running percentage of how many users have toggled their backgrounds off. This would allow people, such as myself, who would otherwise feel that the toggle did nothing besides making us feel more comfortable, to believe their choice is a genuine choice which will have impact, even if the percentage is never utilised or thought about when making decisions.

Moreover, this could also give a more accurate representation of the AI sentiment within the member base, allowing more reliable understanding in comparison to discussion threads such as these where people with the “correct” opinion (this being that AI is bad) are able to be more outspoken because their thoughts are more acceptable and easier to defend. To be clear, I do not agree that there is or ever should be a correct opinion, this is just the best word I found find to describe what I meant people may think.

Thank you
a) for reading
b) to Zach for this incredible site
c) to Nancy/Logan for the opportunity to post.

Have a lovely day.

For some reasons already explained, and although I have no doubt about the motivation and goodwill of many of you, I don't want to (and won't) rely on backgrounds created by third parties.

There are several reasons for this.

First of all, I'm quite opiniated about what I want the site to look like. I believe its design is at the very core of its identity and one of its greatest strengths. I've always had a fairly clear vision of what I wanted to achieve.

The backgrounds are an integral part of that design (on desktop, at least) and to do so, they have to meet very specific requirements: a consistent visual style, colors that match the theme, balanced overall brightness and contrast, and no overly prominent details along the edges that would draw too much attention. I designed the colors of the current themes around the original Pottermore artwork so that everything would feel as coherent as possible. Moreover, backgrounds are going to play an very greater role in the upcoming navigation menu and on mobile.

This site has been my personal project for 21 years now, and since we're talking about creators, I think it's fair to say that it's something I've built, refined, and am genuinely proud of. Improving the site's design and functionnalities is what motivates me to keep working on it so many hours. It's not an aspect I'm willing to outsource, and the very existence of the site depends on my continuing to enjoy working on it. And I have the intention to continue!

I also don't want to end up in a situation where someone spends hours creating a background only for me not to like it and have to reject their work. That would put me in a very uncomfortable position.

On top of that, I know from experience that it's virtually impossible to find high-quality, freely usable assets for these backgrounds. Please believe me, I've spent years digging through every corner of the internet looking for suitable images and icons. The few photos shared here, or the images suggested earlier, simply don't seem appropriate to me. And nowadays, the internet is increasingly flooded with AI-generated images as well.

Finally, even with all the goodwill in the world, I have absolutely no doubt that there is no realistic chance that even a fraction of the images we need (more than 150 already exist today, and ideally around 400 to cover every location) would ever be completed. Even if we had a talented artist capable of producing backgrounds of the required quality, the task would be monumental and, let's be honest, simply not worth it! Creating a single background for a single classroom would take days of work. We've already tried several times to launch community projects to add custom backgrounds to the French site, and every single one stalled after the very first images. I also don't want to spend years waiting for backgrounds before moving forward with the site's redesign.

So I'm going to ask you to trust me to build something that I believe you will like, while still giving those who don't like it the option to hide it.

I know I'm repeating myself, but I'd ask you to be patient for just a few more days until I can show you the finished result. I'm on it for several months and worked until 1/2 am the last few days to deliver it as soon as i can.

Once again, I'd like to thank you all for being willing to discuss this divisive topic. I believe it's the right thing to do, rather than presenting you with a fait accompli.

I can confirm that there will be an option to disable the backgrounds; it will most likely be replaced by a subtle texture that varies depending on the location and blends naturally with the rest of the design, rather than leaving a harsh black background, I'll do my best. I also think I'll run an anonymous poll afterward to get a better sense of how people feel about it.

Thank you Zach!

Anonymous User

Hii!
I'm so happy someone posted this because I'm not entirely comfortable on posting on these announcements, haha. I also wouldn't mind researching more and keeping you updated if you'd like and I find something else, and I hope this is a good approach here. And I hope this is something to be considered!

I had an idea, since I do find the black background bland and it's not as "inviting" anymore. After asking Ecosia AI (environmentally friendly) some questions for environmentally friendly AI's, here's what I found out:

Question:

Recommend me AI websites that are environmentally friendly and can generate images.

Answer:


Of course, not all of that was true, since Ecosia itself can't generate images. So, I went with some of the other recommended AI's.



Question:

is Nightcafe environmentally friendly and can it generate pictures?https://creator.nightcafe.studio/

Answer:


Question:

and GreenPT? https://greenpt.com/

Answer:


Although, for GreenPT, I think you should pay, so I'm not sure if the image generation works (for LeapAI, eg, it didn't), but Nightcafe does work. I thought this would be a nice thing to try and see if images for the site could be generated, since I suppose these sites would be better than ones that don't even have a bit of environmental friendliness.

I've stayed on HIO for the human element, but that's been rapidly decreasing as AI oversaturates it. AI graphics, AI plots, and (as we keep seeing in announcements) a disturbing excess of people using AI to write posts or profiles. Despite playing long enough to graduate a character, this has majorly discouraged me from making a second generation. Generative AI is a regurgitation of human work: it can't come from nothing, so it skims the writing or art that's out there. It steals. It's unoriginal. Whatever backgrounds are generated for this site will pull from the creations of real people, many of which would have been happy to provide their work for free. I've always told artists who apologized for lengthy commissions that "real art is worth waiting for". There are loads of artists out there who say their pieces are free to use as long as they're credited, and with this fandom being as old as it is, there are boundless pieces to pull from. It would take time to track down large and beautiful enough pieces worthy of being backgrounds that suit the site's aesthetic + get clearance to use them, but it isn't impossible, especially with so many volunteering their time. I was thinking about reaching out to some, but it seems a decision has been made despite the admission of harm it causes in the first post (environmental, social, economic) and, at the time that I'm writing this, a community vote of about 7 yes 25 no and 9 neutral or undecided, plus multiple people offering their actual talents for free. I don't want to look at or read regurgitations and think about how much this site is contributing to the loss of artistry. I've met some beautifully creative minds on here that have kept me around for almost seven years, but I am so deeply discouraged by the overwhelming presence of AI that it makes me not want to write, which has been a passion of mine since I was a little kid. This is a heartbreaking development. The toggle option is silly to put it lightly, as AI is still being used, this just offers the "peace of mind" of not seeing it. As someone who got sucked into using gen ai for graphics, I fully understand the "instant gratification" feeling it offers. I get to live with immense guilt for my contribution to the craze, and the bad influence I made on other users- ESPECIALLY the young artists that come here looking for a place to share their love of creation. To see it used in an official capacity feels like a showstopper. I know it would call for an immense amount of work, but isn't human effort what inspires others? Aren't we here to celebrate in creativity? Is art still worth it? If not, what are we even doing here besides trying to generate numbers? A very AI goal. Devastated because I adore this site and all the effort that's gone into it, but it's becoming unrecognizable from what it was when I joined because of artificial intelligence.

I fully agree with Pericles. I wasn’t going to say it because I got a bit scared to post it, but Zach, on behalf of me and a lot of other people I would really like it if we posted an official poll first, instead of a poll after the fact when the energy has already been used. The visual aspect is one thing, but there wouldn’t be peace of mind in knowing that even if you don’t see it, that the environmental impact has already been done. I would strongly advise a poll and to please actually take into consideration the genuine interest and willingness of people to work with you on making the site have HUMAN backgrounds.